Good old days?
I was talking with my grandson a while back and I referred to the fifties, when I was his age, as the good old days. Afterward the thought struck me; why after all the accomplishments of the last 60 years do I feel now that those were the good old days? At least the way I see it now, through my seemingly rose color glasses. It all comes down to values I guess. What do we value more? Is it things that add monetary value to our lives or is it things that make our lives more enjoyable and don’t have a price tag associated with them? I am going to be very truthful here and maybe I was a little naïve back then, but this was the way it was when I was a kid.
I had never heard of a pedophile or drug gangs. No one ever offered me any pot to smoke or powder to suck up my nose. Bullies in schools were dealt with by suspending them. If you failed a grade in school you took the whole grade over. Pocketknives were allowed and we played a game called mumbly peg on the playground and no one ever got stabbed, Pregnancy in school age girls was a very rare thing. The stigma attached to it was something every girl wanted to avoid. There was no porn to speak of or at least nothing kids could get a hold of. Lawyers were looked up to, as were police officers. Most families had two parents. Grand parents were revered and not the out of sight, out of mind, attitude many have now with the old. You sat down and ate your meals as a family and you went to church Sunday and visited relatives in the afternoon because no one was working on those days except dairy farmers and emergency people. If you were sick you could see the doctor that same day or if you were really sick, he would come to you. We had comedians like Jack Benny and Red Skelton who didn’t have to be dirty to be funny.
Think about today. Everything I mentioned above has changed and not necessarily for the good. Yes, there are some things that have changed for the good. For instance, we have, more modern homes, safer cars and better health care. We did get rid of polio and small pox but yet we now have aids, fetal alcohol syndrome, crack babies and an epidemic of lung cancer. I looked up the word progress and Webster says, “It’s the advance or development toward a better, more complete, or more modern condition. “ Look around us. Would you trade what you have today for a more decent world? Is this progress we have attained and is this a more modern condition? Are our freedoms becoming our curse?
Yes the world was more decent back then, so why did we do what we did to change it? Well part of the answer was inattentiveness. Small segments of the population pushed the limits and our courts and judges went along with them and we shrugged our shoulders. Yes, we did have the constitution to guide us and for a couple of hundred years it did well. But then courts and lawyers took to litigating it to pieces, so what had been always wrong, was now all right. If you take one hundred people and ask their opinions there will always be a couple that don’t like things the way they are. Courts used to rule on the side of the 98 percent because that’s the way a democracy is supposed to work. Now we rule on the side of the 2 percent and call that making progress.
Mike Holst
Crosslake
Comments (39)
Add commentWell Mike the decadance
of the politicians has a lot to do with it.
Make sure you are nice to any gays you meet also.
What happened?
Our society today is the result of the liberation movement of the sixties.
We could " all start over with a clean sheet of paper"* or
Continue to re-draw political legislative districts ,
( Like VA. did) then eliminate the Electoral College so we can predict better how state election results would turn out ?.
* John B. (R) OH -Infamous hard charging Speaker of the House
You're right, Mike
Life was better back then - for you white guys. You could say whatever un-PC things you wanted and nobody called you on it. Probably laughed along with you - bullies were in style. High school diploma was more than enough for the manual labor jobs most of you had. You kept your women barefoot and pregnant and in their place. The Negroes were still on the back of the bus. Mexicans were in Mexico. The government was all white men - so of course all the decisions were correct from your perspective. Everybody you knew was Christian. Every town had a caste system - the town fathers, the workers, the bums, the "easy" - and you knew your place in it. Very few big decisions were required by you. Now, with everything wide open and options almost unlimited, life is hard, because if you don't do it right, it's your own fault, not because The Man held you down.
pbgf
Now I suppose you are going to tell us Paul Bunyan was hispanic back in the day??
PBGF-Your right Mike
PBGF-You're out of line for the guidelines of this website. You went overboard on racism. Back off. Your article should be pulled. Shame on you. Purposed - good comeback. LOL. However it should not have even been necessary. OFB-good comeback also, but it should not have been necessary either. We can have humor without articles like PBGF's.
paul bunyan girl
Mike is stating it from his perspective not yours. You are welcome to write a letter and tell us what life was like for you in the fifties.
As a woman who was a child in the fifties, no one that I knew
was barefoot and pregnant. This letter is about the positive aspects of the fifties not the negative.
I look forward to reading your letter on the negatives of the fifties compared to the negatives and positives of today.
PBGF
You are right on the money. To these guys Rosa Parks never existed. The terms backseat baby and the other side of the tracks, shotgun weddings were more common than you can imagine...
. . . and some think that
"The Good Old Days: They Were Terrible!" I sold this book in an antiques/gift shop a few years back. Great book, esp. the photos. Don't we all -- in every era -- indulge in a little nostalgia? Nothing wrong with that, as long as it isn't blatant historical revisionism. You don't get to "trade what you have today for a more decent world", Mr. Holst. You have to work to make it a more decent world. And, oddly enough, folks don't always agree about what that takes or means.
"Seeing the pictures of trash-clogged streets, a victim of lynching, a child who has lost his fingers at the mill makes a lot of words unnecessary. But his purpose was not to dishearten the reader. Bettmann wrote in the introduction that this book was "a modest personal attempt to redeem our times from the aspersions cast upon them by nostalgic comparisons." He wanted to show, through words and pictures, that while many think the world is going to hell in a hand basket, times can and do get better. And he succeeded. If you have an interest in how things really were, pick up 'The Good Old Days - They Were Terrible.'" http://www.needcoffee.com/2001/12/17/good-old-days-they-were-terrible-bo...
Cyber Police are Sexist, Racist Pigs at BDD
Over the weekend, we had a female chauvinistic pig article posted by Southie. That's Okay. Now today we have a highly racist article posted by PBGF. Thats okay also. Would these same articles have been pulled if they were posted by some of the conservatives that write on here. You bet your sweet bippie. It seems liberalism at the police headquarters (BDD) has no boundaries. I have personally had articles that were a lot less offensive than these, pulled by the lib cyber cop. How can you get the dirty dishes clean when you're using dirty water?
Hmm -- Purposed. I guess I read P.B.G. as painting
a broad alternative scenario to that of Mr. Holst, showing the 50's/60's as they might have been viewed from the perspective of some women, minorities, ... Maybe it was the language that made it personal -- the "you" -- that offended you more than it did me? Not sure. I found the small town version of Mad Men caricature that P.B. painted to be accurate, from visiting with my family at Thanksgiving. I come from a mixed-race extended family (white sister married black man, has kids, huge extended bi-racial family ...) who talk about those "good old days" with a little less of the "good", and a widely different dose of their own reality. Good discussion.
There was an article recently in the Smithsonian
entitled "Growing up Black". I am not going to say that life was rosy for minorities, but then as now, rosy is in the eye of the beholder. The point of this article was that people, as individuals, had more values than they do today. We may have been naive about our government, but for the most part we trusted those we elected; we had a stronger sense of patriotism for our country; we trusted our police and teachers; and a strong connection to our nieghbors. Life was not always "Leave it to Beaver", but safety and honor was rarely taken for granted!
Bubba benefits today
Hey Bubba, gave you a big red one and you got a free greenie to go with it. Congrats. It's your lucky day today. You didn't even have to troll for that one.
When you register your thumbs up or down "vote",
Charlie, others may be simultaneously voting. Your vote doesn't occur in a vacuum. I don't think the BDD system is as corrupt as you like to imagine. Nice try, though.
PBGF..........
Sounds like you have a PERSONAL problem ! You need to zip it and grow up and get off your pity parties !
So let's recap.
I'm white, I'm Christian, I'm fairly successful, I don't depend on government, I vote conservative, I own my own home, I sent my kids through college on my own dime, I live in a fairly white neighborhood. Because of this I'm a racist, wow I didn't realize it.
llr
sometimes the truth is hard to take, but now that you know what you are you can only better yourself
Discussion
Mr. Holst wrote a letter telling of his fond remembrances of values 60 years ago, and bemoaning behavior and values he sees (lacking) in today's society.
Mike has written reader opinions before, so we have to assume he knew there would be discussion of his letter (both positive and negative).
The person using the pseudonym 'PaulBunyansGF' replied with a different viewpoint of that time (and values) in American history which I interpreted very similarly to Bubba Yumbo's perspective as stated in, "Hmm -- Purposed. I guess I read P.B.G. as painting" and pdnet's comments, "There was an article recently in the Smithsonian".
I can find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with statements from both sources. Particularly in the reader opinion by Mr. Holst regarding the fading of societal 'values'. I also agree and disagree with statements in the posting by 'PaulBunyansGF'. One statement, truthful enough to hurt, is recollections of laughing at things then that today would be hurtful to some people I know and love.
The posting was left, because we are allowing for different points of view to have a say. I read no racist statements (you are welcome to disagree) no offensive language, no personal attacks and the posting has generated good discussion among several posters.
PBGF
Brings up some interesting points from a perspective other than my own.
Instead of everyone taking different opinions as personal attacks and racism, can't we stop and think about how someone else's experiences might shape their attitude differently? Like how much different life was 50 years ago for some than others? I don't think its racist. And I don't believe PBGF was calling anyone 'racist' -- like some replied.
I will admit that "you white guys" was a bit of an assuming line, however.
Very interesting thread though, for a guy who wasn't even alive for any of it.
Born in the USA
I was, and am proud to have been. I grew up in a middle class family, which ironically, became middle class by working all of our families collective posteriors off and saving what the family earned.
We were, and are, white, those of us that are still alive of that same family. We were proud of the fact we said the Pledge of Allegiance every day in school, that our families were friends with other families down the block and that our parents got together for things other than wife swapping parties. The children typically went to church for Sunday School and one or more of our parents went to services upstairs in that same church. We would come home, eat a meal as a family and then the afternoon was a time that was enjoyed recreating, either as a family or with our friends down the road.
We ate three meals a day because our families were stand up, hard working citizens and that hard working included a roof over our heads and vehicles to drive and clothes that were decent but not flashy. Decent meaning that the patched clothes became work clothes and we would acquire something newer to wear to church or for social events. Back then, social events were a big thing, unlike today, in which every day all day is a social event.
We didn't hate other nationalities, but it wasn't uncommon for people of one nationality to gather as a group for get togethers or parties, occassionally, but not as a snub or hatred...it was because we all enjoyed each others company and had many things in common. The rest of the time we interacted with everyone and treated them with respect. (*There is a word which has little use or meaning today; respect.)
Life in the country was admittedly different then, it was viewed as "simple folk" that weren't as driven as city folk, which of course was as inaccurate as could be, seeing as country folk got up at 4 or 5 am and went to bed at 9 or 10 after working all day.
Life today is segregated by wealth, clothing, jewelry, what vehicles you drive, what job you hold, what nationality you are, what religion you are, and on and on and on. Sure, it was there in the 50's but nothing like today where they will kill you if you dont fit that base requirement. Life today is scary different, in that people will kill you for the glasses on your face, the jeans you are wearing the shoes on your feet. And all because the person stealing really believes it will make their lives better...and anyone that already owns the glasses or jeans or shoes will smile and tell you, no, it doesn't...IF they are honest.
rubb
I'm in my late 60's and grew up never seeing a minority until I was 16. No problem. I'm Christian, white, and have been succesful owning a business with my husband. I put myself through college and grad school.
Our circumstances from our birth are what they are and most of us (I bet including LLR) have known who we are and how we grew up. So, we have spent our live bettering ourselves.
You have to know where you started to move forward.
Furthermore, we accept who we are. You may not like what we are/were but, that's life.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can.
And wisdom to know the difference.
Perpetuity
Good Post!! Gold Star from me Sir!!!
You did nail it there with that Big word. RESPECT!!
Hey Denny
Is it just a coincidence that you quote and support only liberal posters on this subject. That wouldn't be considered discriminating, would it? Maybe the fact that more than half the posters on this subject objected to it, should have been considered in making your decision. I guess your allegience to the DFL party is more important than doing your job properly. Remember this next time you pull a conservative posters letter. Their is definitely some work left to be done by BDD leadership. 2012 was a good year Tim. Let's finish the job in 2013.
Charlie:
"I can find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with statements from both sources. Particularly in the reader opinion by Mr. Holst regarding the fading of societal 'values'. I also agree and disagree with statements in the posting by 'PaulBunyansGF'"
Only support liberals? How do you get that from "agree and disagree"?
I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth, but I'm guessing he quoted a couple of responses that support his decision to keep these posts online. It wouldn't make any sense to use "Now today we have a highly racist article posted by PBGF" to support his decision to keep the post.
Not that BDD should even have to explain themselves to a bunch of knee-jerk reactions.
And
"Maybe the fact that more than half the posters on this subject objected to it, should have been considered in making your decision."
I found two posters, "Purposed" and yourself "charlie m" who considered the PBGF post to be racist.
Others may have disagreed, some others even misunderstood. But I guess I don't see where more than half of the posters objected to having a thoughtful post like that on this thread.
Again, seems like a knee-jerk remark.
Hey Charlie
Thank you for the call and your comment.
Whether or not half the posters on here object to a comment is not a reason to pull it.
http://brainerddispatch.com/docs/terms.shtml.
Wow!
The perfect example of bullying behavior. I'm now a racist. Can't figure out why. The use of the word Negro? That was the term in the '50's - not the n-word you may be thinking. Nothing I wrote attached any name-calling to any race. It was just fact, that people who were anything but Christian White were stereotyped and in many situations not treated fairly or certainly equally. All women could be put in that category. My job options had limits: no lady pastors, no lady astronauts, no lady firefighters, few lady doctors, almost no lady lawyers. In those same categories, very few blacks or Hispanics either. Is that racist? No - statement of fact. Was it accepted? Yes, at the time. Now we, most of us, see the error of that kind of thinking. Were we better off in the 50's because of those divisions? Depends on your rose-colored glasses.
I'm also struck by the comment that we trusted our elected leaders, our teachers, our police. Mainly because we didn't know everything about them. JFK is revered, but we didn't know about his private life. Priests were trusted - where did that get thousands of innocent altar boys? Police brutality - never mentioned out loud. Teachers were our gods - but many of them labeled their students and taught them accordingly. We never heard of husbands beating their wives or molesting their kids, or even being alcoholics. It wasn't talked about. Doesn't mean it wasn't happening.
If you grew up in an uncomplicated life, consider yourself extremely lucky. Almost everyone has scars from some injustice or unkind word that was said to them.
Which brings us back to bullying. I post an uncomplicated statement this morning, and I'm labeled as PMS, racist, needing meds, ranting, etc. You don't know me. I am not, however, ANY of those things. Apparently these threads are just for the handful of you who like to throw hateful remarks at each other and at anyone who dares enter your little world. I did so only hoping to add something to think about - but apparently there is very little thinking going on.
And that is why 2013 is not as good as the 50's, because if I don't agree with the loudest shouters, I'm pond scum. OK - whatever you say. I know it's not true, and that's all that really matters to me.
Cry us a river
and we'll hire the world's smallest violin player to play "My heart pumps pur............
Hey Girlfrien...
you sound bitter to me, no more, no less. Angry, bitter, and stuck in the mud puddle of life called female rage.
pbgf
"For you white guys" would be the phrase that you used.
You assumed that white guys had it easy and went on to give your version of what you think they went through.
I don't know if you meant white men or white people.
It didn't bother me, as it read like you were venting what it was like for you. Just as Mike was in his letter.
The statement you made this morning was uncomplicated to you but, that is not how others read it. I would think most people know of what you speak. Although, I didn't witness bullying as much as there is now.I was encouraged to go to college and yes to be a teacher. Which I'm not.
Life is what it is. Most of us have moved on and grown up as we grow older and yes, learned about life.