DANVILLE, Ky. (AP) — At odds early and often, Joe Biden and Republican Paul Ryan squabbled over the economy, taxes, Medicare and more Thursday night in a contentious, interruption-filled debate. "That is a bunch of malarkey," the vice president retorted after a particularly tough Ryan attack on the administration's foreign policy.
"I know you're under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but I think people would be better served if we don't interrupt each other," Ryan later scolded his rival, referring to Democratic pressure on Biden to make up for President Barack Obama's listless performance in last week's debate with Mitt Romney.
There was nothing listless this time as the 69-year-old Biden sat next to the 42-year old Wisconsin congressman on a stage at Centre College in Kentucky.
Nearly 90 minutes after the initial disagreement over foreign policy, the two men were still at it, clashing sharply over rival approaches to reducing federal deficits.
"The president likes to say he has a plan," said Ryan, a seven-term congressman. But in fact "he gave a speech" and never backed it up with details.
Biden conceded Republicans indeed had a plan. But he said that if enacted it would have "eviscerated all the things the middle class care about," including cutting health care programs and education.
As Biden and Ryan well knew, last week's presidential debate has fueled a Republican comeback in opinion polls.
Republicans and Democrats alike have said in recent days the presidential race now approximates the competitive situation in place before the two political conventions. Obama and Ryan are generally separated by a point or two in national public opinion polls and in several battleground states, while the president holds a slender lead in Ohio and Wisconsin.
With Democrats eager for Biden to show the spark the president lacked, he did so. He supplemented his criticism by periodically smiling mockingly, wagging his finger and raising his arms in mock disbelief as his rival spoke.
Ryan, sitting on the national debate stage for the first time, settled on a smirk for parts of the debate. He sipped water and cleared his throat through many of Biden's answers.
Unprompted, Biden he brought up the video in which Romney had said 47 percent of Americans pay no federal income tax, view themselves as victims and do not take responsibility for their own lives.
"It's about time they take responsibility" instead of signing pledges to avoid raising taxes, Biden said — of Romney, Ryan and the Republicans.
Ryan was ready with a response. "This is a man who gave 30 percent of his income to charity, more than the two of us combined," he said of the man at the top of the Republican ticket. "Mitt Romney's a good man. He cares about 100 percent of Americans in this country. And with respect to that quote, I think the vice president very well knows that sometimes the words don't come out of your mouth the right way."
The serial disagreements started immediately after the smiles and handshakes of the opening.
Ryan said in the debate's opening moments that U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens had been denied sufficient security by administration officials. Stevens died in a terrorist attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi on Sept. 11.
"Not a single thing he said is accurate," Biden shot back.
Both the president and Romney campaigned in battleground states during the day before ceding the spotlight to their political partners for the evening.
"I thought Joe Biden was terrific tonight. I could not be prouder of him," Obama told reporters after watching the debate aboard Air Force One.
Likewise, Romney called Ryan and congratulated him on his performance, a campaign spokesman said.
Obama and Romney hold their next debate on Tuesday in Hempstead, N.Y, then meet again on Oct. 22 in Boca Raton, Fla.
In Kentucky, Biden and Ryan seemed ready for a showdown from their opening moments on stage, and neither seemed willing to let the other have the final word. They interrupted each other repeatedly — and moderator Martha Raddatz of ABC as well.
With Democrats eager for Biden to show the spark the president lacked, he did so.
Ryan focused on dreary economic statistics — 23 million are struggling to work, he said, and 15 percent of the country is living in poverty. "This is not what a real recovery looks like."
Medicare was a flashpoint, as well. Ryan said Obama's health care plan had diverted $716 billion from the program for seniors and created a new board that could deny care to patients who need it.
Democrats "haven't put a credible solution on the table," he said. "They'll tell you about vouchers. They'll say all these things to try to scare people."
Biden quickly said that Ryan had authored not one but two proposals in which seniors would be given government payments that might not cover the entirety of their care. Otherwise, he said, the Romney-Ryan approach wouldn't achieve the savings they claimed.
Unlike Obama, Biden had no qualms about launching a personal attack on Romney.
After Ryan argued that Romney's plan would pay for reduced tax rates by eliminating tax loopholes for the wealthy, Biden noted that on a recent interview on CBS' "60 Minutes," Romney defended the 14 percent tax rate he pays on his $20 million income as fair, even though it's a lower rate than some lower income taxpayers pay.
"You think these guys are going to go out there and cut those loopholes?" Biden asked, addressing the national TV audience, his tone of voice indicating he did not.
But Ryan said he and Romney believe "taking 28 percent of families' and businesses' income is enough."
"What we're saying is lower tax rates across the board and close loopholes primarily on the higher income people," Ryan said. He said that instead of specifying what loopholes and other tax breaks would be eliminated, Romney preferred to lay out broad principles in hopes of reaching a bipartisan agreement.
Across 90 minutes, the two men agreed precisely once.
That was when Ryan, referring to the war in Afghanistan, said the calendar was the same each year. Biden agreed to that, but not to his rival's underlying point, which was that it was a mistake for Obama to have announced a date for the withdrawal of the remainder of the U.S. combat troops.
The fiercest clash over foreign policy came in the debate's opening moments, when Ryan cited events across the Middle East as well as Stevens' death in Libya as evidence that the administration's foreign policy was unraveling. The Republican also said the administration had failed to give Stevens the same level of protection as the U.S. ambassador in Paris receives.
Biden rebutted by saying that the budget that Ryan authored as chairman of the House Budget Committee had cut the administration's funding request for diplomatic security by $300 million.
On the nation's economy, both men were asked directly when his side could reduce unemployment to 6 percent from the current 7.8 percent. Both men sidestepped.
Biden repeated the president's contention that the nation is moving in the right direction, while Ryan stated the Republican view that economic struggle persists even though Democrats had control of both houses of Congress during the first two years of Obama's term.
"Where are the 5 million green jobs" we were told would be created? Ryan said to Biden.
Obama campaigned in Florida during the day. Mocking recent changes in Romney's rhetoric, he told a rally in Miami rally, "After running for more than a year in which he called himself severely conservative, Mitt Romney is trying to convince you that he was severely kidding."
Romney visited with 93-year-old Billy Graham in North Carolina before speaking to an evening rally in Asheville, N.C. "Prayer is the most helpful thing you can do for me," he told the evangelist.
For Biden, Thursday night's debate was his first since the 2008 campaign, when he shared a stage with Sarah Palin, then John McCain's running mate.
Ryan spars frequently with Democrats during debates on legislation on the House floor and in the House Budget Committee, which he chairs, but not in a one-on-one encounter covering 90 minutes and a virtually unlimited range of topics.
For all their differences, the two men shared a common objective, to advance the cause of their tickets in a close race for the presidency. And they appeared to avoid any gaffes that might forever seal their place in the history of debates.
___
Associated Press writers Philip Elliott in Kentucky, Ken Thomas in Florida and Kasie Hunt in North Carolina contributed. Espo reported from Washington.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press.



Comments (63)
Add commentsmartguy
Biden wins on substance, but certainly not on style.
Ryan clearly wins. Biden lies
because the facts are on Ryan's side. Again Biden lies about Libya. Anyone with a brain knew it was a terrorist attack immediately. That explains why the Obama administration still probably doesn't know.
Despite what spinners may think. If you lie really good, you still lose.
Biden was a bit like a
Biden was a bit like a biblical hero, Samson, in that his primary weapon appeared to be the jawbone of an [filtered word].
Debate Victor?
Excuse me but it was pretty clear who was the "Bully in the Pulpit" and who acted like the "Adult" last night. If you read between the lines, disparate is the word that best described the performance of the incumbent. He used every trick in the book to bring his challenger off task but it didn't work. Smile, laugh and interrupt as much as you like, in the end the public witnessed first hand the attitude of his party and how his party views those who disagree.
Biden disrespectful and interrupted Ryan 82 times
Is this "presidential"?
Romney interrupted the President
about the same. Where is your outrage?
Who Are The Kool Aid Drinkers?
Joe Biden clearly won this debate on substance. Those who complain about his style only have that to complain about, and I found that great. This shows that he could not take their "malarkey" anymore. Great Job Joe.
How dare JJ accuse liberals being Kool-Aid drinkers. He shows that not only has he drunk from the Super Size cup, but he has fallen into the Kool-Aid tank.
Way to go Joe. You did what you had to do - showed the country that the Romney/Ryan ticket would be disastrous for this country. I hope women listened closely to Ryan's comments about abortion.
Now it is on to Tuesday, October 16th where Obama will take down Romney.
Facts On Ryan's Side?
Really? Let's do a little Fact Check, shall we?
Ryan says Democrats support taxpayer funding for abortion, pointing to Obamacare. That’s completely false.
Ryan said “nobody is considering sending troops to Syria.” In August, Gov. Romney told CBS News that he would send U.S. troops to Syria if necessary to prevent the spread of chemical weapons.
Paul Ryan says Obama would reduce the Navy to its smallest size since World War I. Politifact gave that claim a Pants on Fire and called it ridiculous.
Ryan attacks Biden for automatic defense cuts that will go through if Congress does not act. Those cuts come from the “sequester,” the automatic trigger mechanism created by the congressional deal to raise the debt ceiling. You know who voted for that plan? Paul Ryan.
Ryan claimed that his Medicare proposal was co-sponsored by a Democrat. He was referring to Sen. Rod Wyden of Oregon, who did create a plan to change Medicare, but once Republicans adapted it, he distanced himself from the bill this summer. In response to Romney’s continued claims on the campaign trail that the bill was bipartisan, Wyden told the Oregonian in August, “Bipartisanship requires that you not make up the facts. I did not ‘co-lead a piece of legislation.’”
“Mitt Romney is a car guy,” Ryan says earnestly. Mitt Romney also wrote an Op-Ed for the New York Times titled “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.”
And there are many more if you need them. Ryan had the facts???
LMAO.
Purposed
Was there a refutation of my "facts" in your rebuttal? I did not catch it if you did.
You guys now have to provide a similar list of Biden lies. Can you do that?
Can you prove that Obamacare covers abortion? It is now in your court to prove us wrong. Can you do that? I bet you can not do that - your challenge.
The problem with libs...
Biden lost the debate because on the idiots the Dems have working in the campaign.
"Obama deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter is coming under intense criticism from Republicans for saying the "entire reason" the attacks on the American consulate in Benghazi, Libya, had become a political topic was "because of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan."
Really Stephanie?? It couldn't possibly be because Obama only cares about getting reelected and covering up the murder of 4 American citizens was easier than facing the blame that his administration knows nothing about foreign policy. Nixon lied to the American people and had to leave office. Obama lies to the American people and the libs want him put on a pedelstal and reelected. The only difference is that what Nixon did didn't get Americans murdered!!
Do You Want The Long Form Too?
"Taxpayer-Funded Abortions: Fact Check"
Dated July 12, 2012
by: Keegan Kyle
In a survey sent to constituents last week, Congressman Duncan Hunter described upcoming changes to the nation’s health care system.
"The President’s health care law requires taxpayer funding for abortion and abortion-related services. Do you agree or disagree that Americans should be forced into this type of coverage?"
Hunter claimed taxpayers will foot the bill for abortion services, and through a question, suggested Americans will be forced into health care plans that include coverage for abortion services.
A couple readers asked us to Fact Check the survey. We soon found that other fact checkers had already researched the health care law and debunked claims like Hunter’s description.
PolitiFact, a project of the Tampa Times, researched a similar claim two years ago and determined the law doesn’t call for “taxpayer-funded abortions.” Some abortion services would be funded through customer premiums, not tax dollars.
Purposed, since I stated that Obamacare does not include $1 for abortion coverage and you state otherwise, you should provide some proof and not your typical conservative snarky remarks. You got anything? I thought not.
If you are going to calling me a liar you have to prove it. Prove it!!!!!!
Don't change the hair...Priceless...
Abortion was covered by government health care plans
Before it was banned.
It covered birth control, too. It still does!
Most people never read their plans.
GOLD STAR FOR TODAY LLR.
Being an accessory after the fact,(or before it maybe) to a murder coverup, isn't really a sterling Presidential recomendation.
Abortion and gov. funds
Go read the Hyde Amendment...........
Facts = Liberal Talking Points!
Yep, you're so right Purposed. Facts are the same as liberal talking points! I am overwhelmed by your scintillating intellect.
You have to read the entire bill/document/paper before you can speak about what it says? Unbelievable, I guess you can not believe what you hear or read from reputable sources until you read the entire referenced source yourself? I guess you can not believe what your pastor/priest/rabbi says until you read the entire source document?
Good one, Graydo.
The headline is extremely misleading. Could anyone have watched this debate and come away with the conclusion that the two were equally "at each other?" I was embarassed for our country.
Dutch - since you seem to be a fair person, how about a picture of Biden's teeth. Since most of us were listening for substance, we were far more distracted by Biden's teeth than Ryan's hair.
Biden...Some Sunshine...
Cbs poll said Biden won, CNN
Cbs poll said Biden won, CNN poll said Ryan won
Joe OWNED him!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC848UA04bQ
Fact. Fact. Fact.
Joe Biden acted like an immature jerk, laughing at all the serious issues that were talked about. It may have been a debate tactic years ago, but is not appropriate in a debate of this magnitude.He was not respectable to Ryan and the people that were watching and listening. We can't hear if he is interupting Ryan 80 times. Biden doesn't respect the middle class that he talks about alllllllll the time. In fact he was condescending to all of us and especially. The Democrat base included in that as they also couldn't hear even though they liked the laughing, immature behavior.In fact, this is the same behavior of many Democrats today.
Jod Biden voted for the Iraq and Afghanstein wars authorizing the use of force.
Why didn't Obama and Biden know about the request for additonal security in Libya? They don't realize that the State Dept. is in their administration.
Anything the Muslim Brotherhood does
is OK with the Obama Regime.
Conservative Double Standards
So, it is OK for Romney to continually interrupt the moderator but it is not OK for Biden to interrupt Ryan?
How does that saying go?
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
Yes, Biden may have misspoken about Libya, but my goodness, did you not catch Ryan's whoppers? On issues like taxes, women's issues and health care that really matters to Americans?
If Romney/Ryan win this election based on their obfuscation, lies and distortions you supporters will also be affected. Do not come back and say "Gee.... we did not know."
What is the saying for rude?
Romney was polite when he was doing on-time fact checking. Biden was rude, condescending and laughing,
it was an insult to all of us who were trying to hear a debate about serious issues.
In fact, the moderator interrupted Ryan last night.
But, it was Biden and his out-dated debate tactics of laughing at Ryan and us at the serious issues we face. No fact-checking on your behalf can change that. How is it that people dying is funny?
You just think that Democrats and people that voted for Obama are now saying --gee-- we didn't know that.
Politics Is Not Bean Bag
Listen to the conservatives: He smiled too much, he was laughing.....did he make a face too? Mommy...he made a face at me.
Bulletin - POLITICS IS NOT BEAN BAG.
When you only criticize the style and not the substance, you lose.
Not when the style was meant
Not when the style was meant to cover up Biden's lack of substance and the administration's total ignorance.
No, Biden was using debate tactics to cover up and not let Ryan get to the points he was trying to make.
This country is in huge debt and this is serious, more so than your politics is bean bag. The country is more important than politics.
What exactly is it about people dying, the growing debt, more people on food stamps, less people with jobs that is funny or worth ridiculing?
You would have some
You would have some credibility if you admitted that Biden should not have laughed and acted the way he did.
Treated Ryan with respect would be nice.
A straight debate without the antics would be nice and respectful.
Freeloaders
never show respect for those that feed them,sadie. Don't hold your breath waiting for Jane to show any.
go joe
go joe go......to Libya.......there is a job waiting for you.
Romney was polite?
Just because the [filtered word] had the same smart [filtered word] grin on his face that Biden did, he was polite. He continually broke the rules of the debate to say....um ...nothing that's right he actually said nothing the entire debate. He was so vague, nobody knows his plan. The moderator tried to get something out of him and he clammed up. It is all [filtered word]. I actually kind of hope he wins so all the righty's see how much they have been lied too. Grow up